「流石に対応が後手後手すぎる！」大谷翔平のIL入り検討とフリーマンの怪我にドジャースファン絶望の嵐【海外の反応】

ってことは、絶望的ってことだな

So he's dead then

ロバーツの逆神発言はマジで百発百中だからな。

Inverse Roberts never fails.

試合前の会見でロバーツが『先週ILに入れておくべきだった』なんて認めたのは、このク○みたいな状況の極めつけだな

Doc admitting in the pregame presser that they should have put him on the IL last week is the cherry atop this shit sundae

まあ、自分たちの過ちを認めてるだけマシだろ。

At least they are admitting their mistakes.

ウケるけど、ぶっちゃけそれを把握するのは監督の仕事じゃないからな。ロースター編成やILの判断はフリードマンとゴームズの領分だし。

It’s funny but it’s not really his job to know that tbh. Those kind of roster and IL decisions are up to Friedman and Gomes

15日か10日か知らなかったってどこで言われてたの？

Where was it mentioned he didn’t know it was 15 vs 10 day?

数日前の試合後のインタビュアーが、ロバーツが『10日』って言った時に『いや15日ですよ』って訂正したら、デーブが『あ、知らなかった』って返してたんだよ。動画の2分あたりを見てくれ。

Interviewer post game a few days ago corrected him when he said 10 day and told him no it’s actually a 15 day and Dave said, oh, didn’t know that. Linking it. See at 2 minute mark.

リンクある？ 追記：サンキュー。

Do you have a link? Edit: Thanks.

なんで低評価されてるのか分からん。今の有利な立ち位置があるからこそ、慎重になれるんだろ。もし今地区優勝の激しい争いをしてたら、翔平はこんな休む休まないの話をせずに無理して怪我を抱えたままプレーしてただろ。
あと、去年の今日、パドレスはドジャースと2ゲーム差だったことを思い出せよ。地区優勝がほぼ決まってるからこそ、ベテラン勢を休ませる余裕があるんだ。

Not sure why you’re being downvoted. The favorable position the team is in now allows them to be more cautious. If they were in an active division race right now, Shohei might be playing through all his injuries instead of having this back and forth.
Also, reminder that SD was 2 games behind the Dodgers on this day last year. Having the division virtually locked down allows them much more flexibility to rest the aging stars.

まさにそこが問題なんだよ。オールスター以降ずっと怪我を抱えたままダラダラやってるんだから無駄な時間だろ。膝の件が最初に出た時にサクッとILに入れておけばよかったんだ。それどころか、制球が壊れる原因になったマメの時点でILに入れておけば、今更休ませるかどうかで悩むこともなかったはず。少なくともプレーオフに万全で間に合えたかもしれないのに、今はスタメンに入れるかどうかも怪しい状態だ。登板回避や数日の休みを繰り返しても全然良くならなかったんだから、最初から意味がなかったろ。

That’s exactly the thing though, it’s a waste of time because Ohtani has been back and forth with minor injuries since all star break. It couldve just been a short IL stint when the knee issue first popped up. Hell, they could’ve even started with the blister that made his command turn to shit and then they wouldn’t have been struggling currently trying to decide if they should put him on the IL or not. At the very least he could’ve been healthy in time for the play-offs but there’s always as much a chance that he won’t be able to be in the lineup as he will be. It just didn’t make sense to attempt multiple rest days or start skips when it never seemed to get better.

後からなら何とでも言えるけど、渦中にいる時はそんなに単純な話じゃないんだよ。当時はマウンド復帰の兆しが見えてたかもしれないし、翔平みたいな貴重な腕を完全にダメだと決まるまで手放したくないのは当然だろ。
ファンやメディアが今になって責めるのは簡単だけど、現場にとっては簡単な決断じゃないんだ。

We can say that now with the benefit of hindsight, but things aren’t always as clear cut and dry when it’s happening. He might have actually shown promise that he could make a return to the mound then and the prospect of having a valuable arm like Shohei’s is too hard to give up until you’re absolutely forced to as they are now.
It’s easy for fans and media to now point and try to place blame, but these aren’t easy decisions.

投球を続けようとするたびにどんどん悪化していったんだから、結果論とか関係ないと思うわ。一回も良くなってるようには見えなかったぞ。毎週のように新しい怪我やトラブルが出てたのに、MLB史上最高の二刀流選手をなんでリスクに晒し続けたんだ？

I actually don’t believe hindsight even plays a roll in this as he increasingly got worse and worse as he kept trying to pitch. It never once looked like he was getting better. I firmly believe in hindsight is 50/50 instead of 20/20 but even then, it’s the best two-way player in mlb history. Why even risk it if every week it’s some new injury or inconvenience?

そうなんだよ、長期離脱の後は精神的に感覚を取り戻すだけでもかなり時間がかかるからな。肉体的なハードルとなれば尚更苦労するだろ。

Yeah, it's rough because it takes a good while to get into the swing of things (no pun intended) mentally after missing time. The physical hurdle has to be even moreso of a struggle.

特に今は子供が2人いて睡眠時間が激減してるだろうしな

Especially now that 2 kids have decreased his sleep quantity greatly, I’m sure

昨日試合に出ちゃったから遡及適用できなくて、9月24日になるな。

Sept 24 because they can't back date it since he played yesterday

最後に出たのは月曜だぞ。

He last played Monday

あれ、なんで今日が火曜だと思ってたんだろ、やばw
じゃあ月曜に遡及適用できれば9月22日には戻って来れるかもな。

why i thought today was tuesday, mess
then he'd probably be back by sept 22 if they back date it to monday

悪くないな。10月前にスイングを微調整してリズムを取り戻すためのカードが2シリーズ分残るし。

Not terrible, leaves him two series worth of games to tune his swing and find his rhythm again before October.

悪くないのは同意だけど、最新のインタビューで今の違和感に合わせてフォームを微調整してるって言ってたから、あと1〜2日は様子を見てからILじゃなくて『テスト出場』させるつもりなんじゃないかな🤔

i agree that it's not too bad BUT on his most recent interview he did mention something about adjusting his mechanics around his current discomfort, so i feel like they will focus on that for 1-2 more days and then bring him back to "test" instead of actually putting him in the IL 🤔

ぶっちゃけ今の時期なんて、どのチームのどの選手も何かしら痛みを抱えながらプレーしてて、庇うためにフォームを調整してるのが現実だろ。

The truth of the matter is every player on every team is playing through something at this point in the season and have had to make mechanical adjustments to compensate.

ありがとう

Thank you

何でみんなロバーツとフロントばかり責めるのか理解できんわ。誰よりも試合に出たがって、投球を続けるために必死だったのは翔平自身だろ。

I don’t get why folks are only blaming Roberts and FO when Shohei is the one who wants to be out there playing the most and wanted to do whatever he could to keep pitching.

同感。今シーズンは翔平がいかに頑固か（怪我を押して投げ続けるとかね）痛いほど分かったし。今の状況になった責任は全員にあると思うわ。

I agree. I feel like we learned more than ever this season how stubborn Shohei can be (e.g., pitching through injury). I think everyone carries responsibility for where he’s at now.

そうだな。デーブの試合前インタビューを見たけど、月曜にスイングで違和感を覚えた時、翔平は球団に伝えてなかったみたいだな。火曜（たぶんフリーバッティングの後）になって初めて発覚したっぽい。

Yeah. I just saw Dave's pregame interview and I took away from that that Shohei did NOT tell them Monday when he felt something off in his swing, and that they found out about it Tuesday (possibly AFTER he already took BP).

翔平が全部決めるならフロントや監督に給料払う意味ある？
GM翔平様だなw

※GM：ゼネラルマネージャー（編成責任者）

why pay for the fo & coach if sho decides.
leshogm.

俺が知る限りはロースター枠の確保だけだな。今は拡張ロースター期間だし、理論上は1人少ない状態で戦うこともできるけど。

Just the roster spot as far as I know. Since there are expanded rosters they could theoretically just play a man short.

いや、大谷は自分で調整メニューや出場の可否を決められる数少ない選手の一人だ。史上最高の選手も自分の怪我の見極めに関しては素人だったってことだな。
ラッシングに関しては、手術で復帰に6〜9ヶ月かかる見込みだ。肘の様子を見るために別のアプローチ（段階的なペースアップ）を試す期間があったんだろ。指名打者としてポストシーズンの枠に入るのは無理だから、打撃と捕手の両方が絶対条件だった。限界まで挑戦した結果、シーガーと同じトミー・ジョン手術の道を辿ることになりそうだけどな。
速攻で断念して手術を受けてても結果や復帰時期は同じだったろうし、試したこと自体は悪くない。上手くいけばチームに貢献できたんだからな。

Nah, Ohtani is one of the few players who gets to dictate his own regimen and when he can play vs cannot. Turns out the GOAT isn't the best as evaluating his own injuries.
Regarding Rushing, again, he's facing surgery and a 6-9 month recovery. It's not unlikely that he's had a window to try an alternative approach (ramp up slowly) to see how the elbow responds. He's not making post season roster as a DH so it's always been hitting + catching is a must. He took it as far as he could but it would seem he's on the Corey Seager Tommy John elbow surgery track now.
Shutting him down immediately and getting surgery had the same outcome and timeline as trying this secondary approach. The upside obviously would have been that he responded well and could contribute.

翔平も自分の体の不調や痛みの強さを正直に話してなかったんだよ。関係者全員にとって貴重な教訓になったな。

Shohei also wasn’t honest about his ailments and how much pain he was in. This is a valuable learning experience for all involved.

『正直じゃない』って言い方は違うと思うぞ。我慢してプレーできると思ってたんだろうし、それは日本の野球で叩き込まれた精神論だろうな。彼の年齢も考えて、そういう無茶から守ってやるのがドジャースの役目だろ。

Don't think honest is the right word here. He thought he can fight through it which is probably what was engrained into him from Japanese baseball. It's up to the Dodgers to protect him from that, esp at his age.

日本の文化とか関係ねえよw MLBの選手なんて人種問わずみんな怪我を押してプレーしてるわ。

It’s not a Japanese thing. lol. MLB players of all stripes push through injury.

このチームでも見てきただろ。トミーやマックスの例を見ても、怪我と戦いながらベストを尽くすなんて無理だって証明されてるようなもん。結果論だけど、翔平に強行出場させようとしたのは残念だな。

We’ve seen that on this team. The most recent examples of Tommy and Max unfortunately seem to have proven that players will not be able to give their best while they battle injury. Hindsight is 20/20, of course; it’s still a shame that they tried to have Shohei play through.

叩き込まれた精神だろうが何だろうが、本心を素直に伝えるコミュニケーションがないとチームも状態を把握できないだろ。言った通り、全員にとって良い勉強だよ。

Engrained or not, the team needs to know how he’s really feeling which requires candid communication. Like I said, a valuable learning experience for all involved.

ポストシーズンに向けて上げていくべきこのタイミングで起きてるのは最悪だけど、君の言う通り間違いなく貴重な勉強になったな。来年はこの失敗を忘れないでほしいわ。

It’s unfortunate that this is all happening literally as they’re supposed to be ramping up for the postseason, but you’re right—it’s absolutely a valuable learning experience, and hopefully they remember this entire fiasco next year.

フリーマンだって2024年のワールドシリーズで肋骨折れたまま強行出場したし、ウィルだって去年のDS初戦とワイルドカード休んだだろ。まあこういうこともあるさ。

Freddie missed some games and played through a broken rib in the 2024 World Series, and Will missed the wild card and Game 1 of the DS last year. It is what it is.

だな、今に始まったことじゃない。あの時だって翔平も怪我してなかったっけ？

Yup, wouldn't be the first time. Wasn't Shohei injured too in that run?

ワールドシリーズの大半は怪我してたな。二塁スライディングで腕を痛めた後、ユニフォームのエリを三角巾代わりにしてただろ。

Most of the World Series, yes. He used the collar of his jersey as a sling after hurting his arm on a slide to second.